The Ames Test.

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs
Subject: Re: Herbal Abortion?
From: p_iannone.pop.com (Paul Iannone)
Date: 15 Aug 1995 22:32:29 GMT

Camilla Cracchiolo wrote:
: Pregnant women are advised to avoid valerian because it is mutagenic to bacteria and thus may have the potential to cause birth defects. Since most herbs have never been tested to see if they cause birth defects in animals or humans, my advice is that pregnant women should avoid herbal medicines unless a compelling reason for their use exists.

The famous (infamous) Ames test. Unreliable in the extreme.

Best not to rely on traditional uses of herbs, kids. This newsgroup should be closed.

From: camilla.primenet.com (Camilla Cracchiolo)

Paul Iannone (p_iannone.pop.com) wrote:
: The famous (infamous) Ames test. Unreliable in the extreme.

Yes, the Ames test. THE test used to determine carcinogenicity, among other things. So, you think the Ames test should be disregarded, and every substance a pharmaceutical company comes ups with that fails the Ames test should just be marketed anyway? Maybe you favor repeal of the Delaney Clause? Or do you only have a double standard where natural vs. manmade substances are concerned?

From: nyts.news.dorsai.org (Bart Lidofsky)

Camilla Cracchiolo (camilla.primenet.com) wrote:
: Yes, the Ames test. ... Maybe you favor repeal of the Delaney Clause?

I am not familiar with the Ames test (at least by name; is that the one where it is assumed that if a given amount of a carcinogen is spread over a population, the same absolute number of cancer cases will result regardless of the size of the population?), but I am familiar with the Delaney Clause, and I would be VERY much in favor of its repeal, or, better yet, its alteration so that it bears more than a passing resemblence to scientific method. One of the keys to scientific method is duplicability; for an experiment to be valid, it must be duplicable. The Delaney Clause does not require this. For example, the experiment that showed that cyclamates were carcinogenic has never been successfully duplicated, in spite of numerous tries. It is currently assumed that the original experiment used very sloppy lab techniques, yet cyclamates are banned in the U.S., while the more dangerous and less satisfactory saccharrine is still allowed.

From: p_iannone.pop.com (Paul Iannone)

: I am not familiar with the Ames test (at least by name; is that the one

No. The Ames test is a chemical challenge to a specific strain of bacteria in an attempt to create a bacterial model for challenges to human health. It is a hopelessly abstruse analogy, and very unreliable--but attractive to industry, since it is fairly easy to do!

From: jtreasure.jonno.demon.co.uk (Jonathan Treasure)

camilla.primenet.com (Camilla Cracchiolo) wrote:
>Yes, the Ames test. THE test used to determine carcinogenicity,

I don't believe it - she's popped up again,
AND spouting exactly the same nonsense as before!
Camilla (if in doubt cut it out) dear we dealt with all this once, didn't we?
And AMES arose on the third day, and behold all was mutated.